Curse

Argen · Mar 30, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Actually, this is legally binding. In, I think 1996, Bill Clinton passed a law that allowed legitimate internet websites to bar Government and Corporate acsess to wherever they placed a little disclaimer about it on the web.

I'm not sure of the exact article and number of the law, but I've seen it on many Emulation and Music Download websites.

Yes. Thank you, I don't remember the law, but I know I have been involved in some heated arguments about the long-term implications.

Lord Iowerth · Mar 30, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Where's LBS when you need her? I believe she's an attourney of some sort ... but hey, nobody's perfect

Fungus Amongus · Mar 30, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Just a sample of lawsuits containing real/virtual property.

Note-long read.

http://www.eff.org/IP/Emulation/Bliz...BNETDOrder.pdf

Summary: http://news.com.com/Blizzard+wins+on...99.html?tag=nl

Note what someone had to do for Blizzard to take legal action.

Also realize that Ebay will have their own agreement between them and its users. By the time the gold is for sale on Ebay containing certain disclaimers, Anet doesn't have much recourse but to ban accounts involved in buying and selling of the gold. They can't quite mandate that Ebay contains no auctions regarding Guild Wars considering it is possible to auction in-game trades on Ebay.

master_ranger_matt · Mar 31, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

You're bidding on time, not gold, they "give it to you out of their own free will." So Guild Wars can't do anything legally because you are just technically paying them for time out of their lives. I think...

Mega Storm · Mar 31, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

There is an easy fix to all of this, and I can't see why it hasn't been implimented into the game yet to disolve these issues. Anyone ever play other MMO's? I used to Play FF11 up until I went to Iraq for a year and took it off my computer due to the monthly fees.

They need to impliment a GW store into the game where people can put their stuff up for auction and it gets bid on at the going rate like the merchants.

You could even sell gold on it by having a list of items you would accept as a payment for the gold like reverse selling an item or trade in system. I would like to be able to buy the weapon/item of my dreams from a player on the game so I don't have to worry about bitching about farmers/schammers/ebayers/bots and all of that mess. People gripe too much about stuff for a game that is supposed to be FUN. Adding a store system like in FF11 would fix everything people bitch about on a daily basis in the game and on this site.

You want the problem fixed? ME TOO so why isn't there a petition or dare I even say it without being flamed (doubtfull knowing the need to flame by most)..do what the stupid monks did a few times and go on a game wide strike until they agree to add a store. Both parties would win.

Just my own thoughts on a way to fix the issues at hand, but by all means..go ahead and give me your super genious logic ridden flames to show that you know how to type and people will follow you because it's the bandwaggoneer thing to do.

Peace.

addictedtogw · Mar 31, 2006, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Amen, exactly what people have been asking from anet for about 4 months, Anet has to know we want this, and i believe gaile said something about advanced trading system in future

RTSFirebat · Mar 31, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

At the end of the day I feel people buy gold from places like eBay, because sadly some things in this game cost a fair amount of gold. Added to the issue is that farming requires time and effort to be put into it, and a lot of people simply don't have hours to spending farming a single spot constantly.

Just remember there are two sides of the coin, A.net could fix the issue by making gold even easier to come by, then people wouldn't have to buy gold on eBay.

Loviatar · Mar 31, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Just remember there are two sides of the coin, A.net could fix the issue by making gold even easier to come by, then people wouldn't have to buy gold on eBay.

sorry but that is completely wrong.

people ebay to save time

put 10x gold into every drop and that item that costs 100k now will go to 1 million and the price on ebay will stay constant for the same amount of buying power.

instead of 100k they would sell in units of 1000k at the same price which would buy the same item.

give people more gold to bid on something and nothing will change except the number of zeros in the price.

Phaern Majes · Mar 31, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mega Storm

There is an easy fix to all of this, and I can't see why it hasn't been implimented into the game yet to disolve these issues. Anyone ever play other MMO's? I used to Play FF11 up until I went to Iraq for a year and took it off my computer due to the monthly fees.

They need to impliment a GW store into the game where people can put their stuff up for auction and it gets bid on at the going rate like the merchants.

You could even sell gold on it by having a list of items you would accept as a payment for the gold like reverse selling an item or trade in system. I would like to be able to buy the weapon/item of my dreams from a player on the game so I don't have to worry about bitching about farmers/schammers/ebayers/bots and all of that mess. People gripe too much about stuff for a game that is supposed to be FUN. Adding a store system like in FF11 would fix everything people bitch about on a daily basis in the game and on this site.

You want the problem fixed? ME TOO so why isn't there a petition or dare I even say it without being flamed (doubtfull knowing the need to flame by most)..do what the stupid monks did a few times and go on a game wide strike until they agree to add a store. Both parties would win.

Just my own thoughts on a way to fix the issues at hand, but by all means..go ahead and give me your super genious logic ridden flames to show that you know how to type and people will follow you because it's the bandwaggoneer thing to do.

Peace.

I fail to see how that will solve anything. The problem isn't trying to sell items or getting them in exchange for your gold. It happens every day, thats why people use the trade channel. The problem is in the "businesses" that are devoted to making a profit (meaning real money i.e. USD, GBP, etc). They aren't going to stop farming and selling gold, items, and power leveling just because Anet implements an in-game store. Such a store wouldn't give people a place to pay real cash for in-game materials.

If you try to argue the point that an in-game store, would cause prices to drop to reasonable rates, then I'd say yes it probably would. However, all that would mean is people will still buy the gold off of sites like ebay and then they could use it to buy even more stuff than before, due to a lower in-game market.

I don't mean this as a flame, and I want to know how you see these issues being resolved by a store that only lets you trade with in-game materials and gold?

EDIT: Also I'll point out I don't know how the FF11 system works. So maybe explaining that to me will clear it up? What I do know is that WoW has an in-game Auction House, and farming is still a problem in their markets.

RTSFirebat · Mar 31, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

sorry but that is completely wrong.

people ebay to save time

Sorry but I was not completely wrong, maybe slightly, but not completely. You see you just made my point in one line...

"People use eBay to save time"

Yep that is pretty much the reason, but should we really shout out and ban them for doing that? At the end of the day a lot of players have family and work to worry about, and simple lack the TIME needed to make 1000K or farm for Ectos.

On average it takes hours and plenty of trade spam in LA and places to even make 100K, unless you get a good rare green item or something.

If people want to buy gold to save time, then fair enough, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would happily hand over £5 for 500K to save time.

Really its up to eBay to up a stop to the gold buyers, as there is plenty of them on the site.

The way I see if, don't hate or ban the players, stop the people supply the large amounts of gold.

cuevas · Mar 31, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Sorry but I was not completely wrong, maybe slightly, but not completely. You see you just made my point in one line...

"People use eBay to save time"

Yep that is pretty much the reason, but should we really shout out and ban them for doing that? At the end of the day a lot of players have family and work to worry about, and simple lack the TIME needed to make 1000K or farm for Ectos.

On average it takes hours and plenty of trade spam in LA and places to even make 100K, unless you get a good rare green item or something.

If people want to buy gold to save time, then fair enough, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would happily hand over £5 for 500K to save time.

Really its up to eBay to up a stop to the gold buyers, as there is plenty of them on the site.

The way I see if, don't hate or ban the players, stop the people supply the large amounts of gold.

if you buy gold, lets say u buy fow armor and perfect everything...yeah so waht? You bought it now you can....yeah do nothing but go around showin off ur fow armor and perfect chaos axe. gj.

CorstedPirate · Mar 31, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

From my understanding, gold and rare items/materials used to be much easier to come by. How much harder should Anet make it? They have already made it quite difficult. The average player doesn't have even 10k in storage, and some people want it to be even harder to obtain in game cash. Why, so the bots won't be able to steal your sales anymore?

cuevas · Mar 31, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorstedPirate

From my understanding, gold and rare items/materials used to be much easier to come by. How much harder should Anet make it? They have already made it quite difficult. The average player doesn't have even 10k in storage, and some people want it to be even harder to obtain in game cash. Why, so the bots won't be able to steal your sales anymore?

they added keys...ah no key days

RTSFirebat · Mar 31, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuevas

if you buy gold, lets say u buy fow armor and perfect everything...yeah so waht? You bought it now you can....yeah do nothing but go around showin off ur fow armor and perfect chaos axe. gj.

Even if the got the FoW armor and Perfect weapon via normal means no one would care.

People have seen it all before and showing off would get you no where. So that argument is pointless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuevas

they added keys...ah no key days

Yeah keys are good, if a little bit like the lotto. Shame they are still really pricey. I remember reading that FoW chest running is not that profitable in the long run, so really A.net need to improve the chest drops.

Cottage Pie · Mar 31, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

FireBeat, if I could somehow buy 500k for £5 I sure would, the going rate is £5 per 100k on ebay, but sites are about 30% cheaper.

And to someone who says the farmers have gold stashes; that may be the case, sometimes they say they've upto 800million 'golds' (gotta love the engrish 8-P) also I have the crazy idea that 'love guild wars' (the number one buyer of UBER rares I think) is actually the leader of a farming guild, and as such, has more purchasing power than any other player could hope for ^^

RTSFirebat · Mar 31, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cottage Pie

FireBeat, if I could somehow buy 500k for £5 I sure would, the going rate is £5 per 100k on ebay, but sites are about 30% cheaper.

The name is RTSFirebat... no extra e in there and the B is not capitol (Yet people always type it as one) lol

And I have seen gold going for that cheap on eBay. If rarely.

Still the price isn't really the issue, its the fact people are allowed to sell it there. Again I think the buyers shouldn't be at fault here. Unless they are buying gold to sell on for personal profit (Resell).

Numa Pompilius · Mar 31, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Common practice. Only reason why they are allowed to do it.

Hahaha, NCSoft should call them on it. If the money and gear are property of NCSoft, NCSoft should demand they hand it over. All of it. For free.

Cottage Pie · Mar 31, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

The name is RTSFirebat... no extra e in there and the B is not capitol (Yet people always type it as one) lol

And I have seen gold going for that cheap on eBay. If rarely.

Still the price isn't really the issue, its the fact people are allowed to sell it there. Again I think the buyers shouldn't be at fault here. Unless they are buying gold to sell on for personal profit (Resell).

lol, i've just woke up ^^ sozzle.

And they're not selling gold, their selling the time it took to get it :P

If you buy a 10 million from a website, it's not hard to sell it on ebay for decent profit. I know someone who did this, and i think it's a good idea, as if you have lots of feedback and are an english based seller you can often charge more than the competition/sell smaller amounts in one go to increase profit/feedback rating even more. This method also lets you get millions for, technically speaking, free (and also a high feedback rating to boot!). Not that I do it. Plus you have to beware of scammers on ebay when selling anything virtual, too many moronic hax0r kidz thinking they're leet with their paypal 7rIx.

I am both against and for buying money and could go into detail on either side of the arguement...There is a definate, solid market for gold - I hear more stories of people buying gold everyday, often in the millions (which become chaos axes and those millions lines the pockets of the mechants) - mostly buyers who don't have the time, and a minority who buy huge sums cos they've fallen for the allure of leet items (or wan't to resell ^^). But you're right in what you said, nobody gives a toss anymore about leet items...only the occasionally wammo who begs for something called 'muny'. I get more compliments on the unique colours I dye my armour than for it being FoW armour.

Ebay gold will exist as long as farming exists, they are the same thing; high prices of items will neccesitate farming and farming (less specifically any method of continual input of money/labour into the economy) allows for high prices/inflation sinks...err, so players take on roles as consumers of status and sellers of status (the true ultimate 'status' in it's self) to allow the market mechanics to function in emulation of the real world, yet still using very real concepts of perceived value and use value. This duality is what created an economy out of nothing but pixels, where one mans uber rich is anothers sad bastard with no RL (an intresting arguement).

When you understand an economy, nothing has any appeal anymore...Like Neo wanking off over some hot blonde then realising she doesn't exist.

I undertsand that

Anet pays (by merely providing currency based on use value, not percieved value) people to farm in virtual tender which is real enough to have an exchange rate with real money (due to percieved value), and vice versa. Farming is the virtual equivalent of working, who/what are you working/farming for? In the first instance it appears to be yourself...but infact you are submitting yourself and spending time based on other peoples demands, you will eventually trade all your cash for an item you want...because that item is wanted - a fallacy - it creates it's own demand by being demanded (exchange value), another iteration of 'the things you own end up owning you', except if someone else owns what you wish to own, they own you, and vice versa.

or SOMETHING

General Surena · Mar 31, 2006, 09:25 AM // 09:25

If people don't have the time to get all the "noble" armours and weapons they want so bad, maybe they should switch to some other game? It's a psychological thing. Weak characters buy themselves through to seek virtual fame, glory or respect. I won't have the same amount of time for Factions, now should I really spend real-world cash to maintain my ingame "status"? It's game, nobody will remember you for anything. If you cannot resist the fake fame you get by showing off, then you need medication.

Gun Pierson · Mar 31, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

People buy with their real life money whatever they want to. Even ilegal stuff, but they're responsible for the risks involved.

Now in this case, they pay for time played. Now I can understand that someone who has a job and is a devoted father to his family and has other responsabilities for example can't play hours and hours every week. I don't have a prob this fella buys ebay gold. As a matter of fact I don' give a dam about the whole ebay thing. I just play this game and what other people do is just their business.

I do understand though that Arenanet doesn't like it but only because they don't get that money.